The BOSS Shift: Embracing Self-Care as a System

For many professionals, corporate and entrepreneur alike, self-care has become yet another box to check-off on a to-do list. But self-care is so important to sustaining personal wellbeing and the success of the business that it deserves to be prioritized and savored.

To kick off season two of The Widest Net Podcast, host Pamela Slim interviews founder and CEO of 31 Marketplace, La’Vista Jones, who has a unique and powerful approach to self-care outlined in her newest book, The Boss Shift. Pam and La’Vista lay out a practical plan for building sustainable self-care into a busy schedule, including identifying the warning signs of burnout, letting go of guilt, and finding the right forms of self-care to remain replenished.


Here’s the full transcript from the episode:

Introducing La’Vista Jones

Pamela Slim  00:05

Welcome to season two of The Widest Net Podcast. I am extra excited to welcome my first guest of the season, La’Vista Jones, to this podcast for two reasons. First, we literally would not have this podcast if it weren’t for the strategy, planning, and production of La’Vista and her team at 31 Marketplace. And second, we get to dissect a topic that is absolutely critical to all of my clients but that La’Vista talks about in a unique and powerful way in her new book, The Boss Shift: Do What You Love Without Sacrificing Yourself to Do It. She is the founder and CEO of 31 Marketplace, an agency committed to helping women do the work they love without sacrificing themselves to do it. As a corporate dropout turned entrepreneur, she is on a mission to challenge women to cultivate their own definition of success and to live life on their own terms.


La’Vista is a business consultant, professional speaker, host of the Boss Talk Podcast, and published author. Her latest book, The BOSS Shift, is anchored in implementing her signature framework that focuses on battling overwhelm with systems and self-care. She is an Ohio native – proudly, we will say – and bleeds scarlet and gray. Go Buckeyes. She’s married to her college sweetheart, Stewart, and they share their home in Arizona with their son, publicly known as “the cub.”


La’Vista and I have worked together in probably now nearing about 100 half- or full-day intensive client sessions with my clients as well as work she’s done for me and my business. So, I feel like I know her work very up close and personal. Welcome to The Widest Net Podcast, La’Vista.


La’Vista Jones  01:53

Thank you, Pam. I’m so excited to be here. I am so, so excited. This is, like, it’s another one of those, like, full circle kind of experiences, right? Like, you know, having you on the show, my show, a few weeks ago. And, you know, now I’m here, sitting here and talking to you. So it’s like, wow, okay.



Pamela Slim  02:14

Well, and I as I said in the opening, it’s very meta, because I had been talking about wanting to do a podcast for a long time. But I just want to clearly state for the record that your support and guidance has been so helpful and just makes it easy to do. So, thank you. It really models, I think, the BOSS framework.


La’Vista Jones

Thank you. Thank you.


What Does It Mean to Be a BOSS?

Pamela Slim 

I’m going to start us off with a slightly embarrassing and hopefully humorous note, seeing as I think it was about three years into seeing you launch BOSS Talk as first a live event here at the Mainstreet Learning Lab and then a podcast. When I said something like, ‘You know, you should really make an acronym of “boss.”’ To which you were like, “It is an acronym.” The prize to be. So, for everybody else, what does BOSS stand for? And what does it mean?


La’Vista Jones  03:02

Yes, so it stands for Battling Overwhelm with Systems and Self-care. And, you know, we’re talking about how meta everything is, like, even that acronym was birthed at K’eh. Like, I remember we were having a little bit of downtime with a client intensive. You know, we were taking a break or whatever. And I just was thinking about it. And it literally just, like, hit me. Like, oh, yeah, Battling Overwhelm with Systems and Self-care. And I’m like, ‘That’s it.’ Right?


And then, you know, I kind of went on about my day; we went and got coffee and came back and finished our intensive. And you know…yeah, it was like, ‘Okay, like, that’s what it is.’ And I think that when we had that conversation, like, “Wait, what do you mean, like, it’s already an acronym?” And I’m like, ‘Wait, what do you mean you don’t know it’s already an acronym.’ Like, what? And our friend Ito, like, we were at a networking event just a couple of weeks ago, and he was like, “Tell them what it means. And he was so excited about it.” And I was like, ‘It means battling overwhelm with systems and self-care.’ And he’s like, “You don’t share that enough.” And I was like, ‘My bad.’ So.


Signs It’s Time to Make The BOSS Shift

Pamela Slim  04:07

Let’s make sure everybody knows from the get go. And it is a good little side-note reminder that sometimes those who we work with so closely, intensively we assume that everybody knows everything about what we’re working on. But sometimes because we work so closely, we just assume the other person knows. So, that was a bit embarrassing.


You write about, in The BOSS Shift, that there’s the prelude to making a shift when you realize something is wrong and you need to do some things differently. What are the signs that you look for in clients that you work with that a shift is imminent, including some of the things that you’ve seen in your own journey?


La’Vista Jones  04:51

Yeah, when a client, I think, is ready to work with me and do the work the way that I do it, by bringing the systems and self-care together, I describe it as that they’re at this crossroad, right, of vision and overwhelm in their business, that they’re looking ahead and they see the way that they want things to go or how they want things to evolve. But then as they’re looking around as, like, how their systems are, how their infrastructure for their business is, how they’re just kind of feeling, you know, like, the overwhelm, how they’re taking care of themselves, they know they’re not going to get there doing everything the way that it is.


And so, when I kind of talked about that prelude of, like, hey, this is what needs to happen for a shift to actually take place, it really starts, like, with your mindset, right, like, letting go of that mindset that being in that space of being overworked and overwhelmed and, like, feeling like you’ve got to hustle and go, go, go is the only way you’re actually going to see that vision fulfilled that’s on the horizon for you in your business. Because that…it’s just not true. We don’t have to be exhausted and, you know, just completely depleted in order to make those things happen.


And, you know, ask me how I know. Like, I know from my own experience, right, of, like, loving work that I used to do. Especially, like, in, like, when I was in a corporate setting. When I describe that relationship with my work, I talk about it’s, like, complicated, because I loved the work, but I took care of myself in a really terrible way. Like, I pulled like all-nighters all the time. Like, that was, like, my norm. And I didn’t eat. I wasn’t sleeping. You know, I was traveling all over the place, though I really enjoyed the travel. But the other boundaries that were kind of needed to just kind of make sure I was okay was not there. But I was still doing work I loved doing, so it’s, like, there’s, like, this conflict, right.


And so, in hindsight of, like, experiencing burnout, going through therapy, putting boundaries and things like that in place, I now see, like, ‘Oh, I could have still been doing that, maybe in a corporate setting, if I had changed some of these things.’ But then looking at the entrepreneurial world, like, there’s so many similarities, right, that I was, like, seeing. Like, oh, I’m seeing, like, this person kind of exhibit that same behavior that I was exhibiting there in corporate. They’re not eating well. They’re not resting. They’re working all night. They’re sending emails at three o’clock in the morning. They’re on this grind, like, this go, go, go. And it’s like, oh, that’s a setup for you to burn out as an entrepreneur and eventually resent this business that you’ve put so much into. And so it’s, like, alright, it’s time to pick up this mantle and, like, work towards this mission of showing these business owners this is not the only way to make your dreams come true.


Pamela Slim  07:46

So much so. And I think you’re absolutely right, that it is not something that is just tied to the entrepreneurial world and ecosystem. It very much lives within corporate. In some ways, it can be a little bit more insidious. It’s insidious everywhere, but there can be certain corporate environments where that really is the culture. One is expected to be that way, so there can be really negative consequences.


It’s always fascinating on the entrepreneur journey – and me now 26 years in – of realizing that if you come from a corporate environment like you and I did, I think I just internalize some of that sometimes. I’m like, who is this voice who’s telling me that if I leave at four o’clock one day instead of five that something is wrong with me? It’s amazing how much that that gets socialized into people. What do you see about that?


La’Vista Jones  08:38

I do think it’s a culture, though. Like, I think it’s something that you kind of learn that’s, like, the unspoken rule of how things work here, right? Like, no boss has ever come to me and said, “I’m gonna need you to stay up all night and work on this report so that we’re ready to go in the morning for this meeting with audit.” But the reality is, I’ve got work I have to do. I’ve got meetings, and I’m, like, back-to-back schedule, sometimes double, triple booked. So, in order to get that work done, I’ve got to put in the extra hours, and if that means, like, staying up all night, then that’s just what it means. You know, seeing my superiors, right, working during their vacation. Like, you get an email from a boss about something, you know, pretty significant that’s going on, and it’s, like, you’re supposed to be on a beach somewhere. Why are you emailing me? And so, it’s like, you were like, oh, like, that’s the expectation in order to get the job done, in order to get promoted, in order to show, like, hey, I can do this.


You know, I would consider myself, like, a very ambitious person. And so, it’s, like, I’m looking ahead. So, these are people who are in positions that I want to be in. If they’re doing it, like, I’ve got to do it. Like that’s the way, right? Like, that’s how I’m going want to continue to progress and move forward, because I didn’t see anybody else doing anything different.


Integrating Systems and Self-Care

Pamela Slim  10:07

Absolutely. And so much of that is careful curation of what you’re paying attention to and what the values are of different business owners. Because I think a lot of talk and sharing about self-care has been relegated to just something you do either when you have so much money that you can focus on it or something you do on the side. Whereas you really look at it more, in The BOSS Shift, in an integrated way, looking at both systems and self-care working together as part of an overall system. When did you start to really see it that way?


La’Vista Jones  10:47

I think that it started getting clearer after I had my son. During that, like, season in my life, like, I was practicing consistent self-care. But it was more of the oh, I’m going to get a massage, you know, like, every few weeks, or those kinds of things. Which, nothing is wrong with that. Like, I love massages. And if you’re, like, a physical touch person, like, go and get them. If they make you feel better, go and get them. But I started to realize, like, hey, that massage I had two weeks ago is not having this lasting effect to, like, kind of carry me over for another, like, week until I get another one.


And so, I started thinking and paying attention to what I was finding joy, like, in the ordinary, like, just in my day-to-day life. And so, you know, one very simple, right – as, like, a new mom and a business owner – it was, like, taking a shower made me feel good. It made me feel human, like, reconnected with myself. And so, that was just a very simple thing I started with, like, as a non-negotiable. Like, I’m taking a shower today. One of the other things, like, I noticed, you know, taking a break and having lunch was, like, something that made me feel good and, like, reconnected with myself. So, that started to be a non-negotiable that I put on my calendar. Every single day, I’m having lunch.


And so, it was, like, that is kind of, like, when the light bulb went off for me that there’s got to be something with, like, this just ordinary day-to-day things that bring me joy that I need to figure out how to get more of and incorporated into the way that I, like, actually work so that the work that I’m doing actually makes me feel good, and it makes me feel revived instead of depleted, and it pumps me up instead of making me feel tired. And that’s where, you know, those two things kind of being married kind of came into play.


What’s Going to Happen if You Don’t?

Pamela Slim  12:44

I love that. There’s something about the timing of when things get to be too much. And sometimes it is where the wheels literally fall off, where people end up getting sick or really not feeling well or where things get so bad on the business side that they just fall apart. You start to lose clients or really, really decrease the effectiveness of the services that you offer.


I’m wondering…I’m just curious, because I’m so fascinated by, like, motivation and habit shift and when somebody would really begin to go on a fundamentally different journey, this mindset shift that you said where it’s not negotiable, that you’re going to be doing things to build the systems in your business and you’re going to be doing things every day, as you said, to bring joy and to care for yourself. What have you seen for some of this, like, prelude to, like, having overwhelm?


And let’s just use a real example. You hear a lot of clients like me, sometimes, that every time that we’re doing an all-day intensive, where I’ll be, like, at the breaker at the end of the day, ‘You know what? I just…it will be so helpful if I have this bank of templates that I could be using so that I wouldn’t have to just be doing so much real-time processing.’ Because I notice it, and every time I’ll notice it, that I’ll keep asking that same thing, in this case of wanting to put a system in place. But then, as you very aptly tell me very directly the next time we do it, “That’s exactly, Pam, what you said last time, and you still haven’t done it. I wonder why.”


Like, what do you see in clients when you just can start to notice that they’re about to be ready, they’re about to really go down this journey and hopefully before the wheels really go off the tracks?


La’Vista Jones  14:45

Yeah, like, that’s, like, when they’re, like, in pain, right? They’re like, “Oh, I can’t I can’t keep doing this this way. Like, I’ve got to do something else.” It is, like, those things that you’re describing, Pam, where it’s just, like, you keep telling yourself like over and over, like, “I need to like put this process in place, or I really need to focus on this. I really need to focus on that.” And, you know, I guess kind of, like, the question coming back would be, what’s going to happen if you don’t? Like, what’s going to happen if you don’t put those templates in place for your intensives? You’re going to keep going through and basically, like, reinventing, like, showing them how to do this with every single intensive instead of saying, “Hey, here’s a set of tools that I have put together. This is how we can use it.” Right? You’re going to, like, keep using, like, this time and this energy in a way that, like, you don’t have to anymore. And it’s going to be in a way that’s just kind of taking away from you instead of a way that’s, like, even energizing you to just kind of show and, like, empower, like, the clients that you’re working with.


You know, somebody that, you know, might be, like, working long hours, like, and they know, like, “Oh, I don’t want to keep doing that.” It’s just like, well, what’s gonna happen if you do, right? Or they feel like they’re on, like, that verge of flirting with burnout, and it’s, like, what happens if you do? What happens if you do? Like, what does life look like if you burn out, right? Because that’s what’s gonna happen if you keep doing it this way, right? Like, you’ve got to be just uncomfortable enough to be, like, “Okay, I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to do this anymore. There’s got to be a different way for me to do this.”


La’Vista’s Burnout Story

Pamela Slim  16:20

Yeah, I do think that kind of insight and probably both painting the picture of what can be pain – I think I have kind of a high tolerance for pain. Or what is the pleasure? What is the payoff that could happen? Is really important, because you really are fundamentally shifting how it is that people operate. And I know I never like to see my clients get to the stage where really bad things happen.


So, it’s anything often in work that you’re doing on the strategic side, on the system side, on the preventative side, are things that can be a little bit harder to sell as a service in the marketplace. I’m curious, is there been anything on the business that you have of helping people with operations and self-care that has been effective at ways to get the message out? And to help people see how critical this is to do this work?


La’Vista Jones  17:22

Like, are you talking about like a specific service, or?


Pamela Slim  17:25

I mean, just in general, when you’re out there talking, you might be doing a keynote. Or you’re on social media, and you’re sharing insight, and you notice what it is that people pay attention to when they’re like, “Yes, now is the right time for me to pay attention to this.”


La’Vista Jones  17:39

You know what it seems to be, Pam? It seems to be my story of what burnout felt like for, like, the actual, like, symptoms, right, of how I felt. And also relating it again to the work I did. Like, I think it would be different if I’m, like, I hated this job or hated this work. Like, the work sucked. And, you know, it made me tired or whatever, but it’s, like, I love the work that I do. But explaining, like, how my process just kind of evolved, you know, my body whispering to me, like, “Hey, you need to slow down. You need to do things a little bit differently. Like, we need, you know, to have a different approach to how we’re doing this.” And I’m like, ‘No, it’s fine. I’m fine. Everything’s fine.’ And I just, like, kept on going.


And then eventually, like, my body, kind of hit me with this, like, two-by-four and was like, “Oh, no. Like, we’re not going to keep going. We’re not going to keep supporting you working and running at this pace like this. So, we’re done. Like, we’re checking out. Whether you want to do the work or you want to continue going at this pace or not, like, I’m not going to do it.” And so, I think that when I, you know, start sharing that, like, you know, it started off with, like, me, you know, just really being tired. And then, like, developing into headaches and then having, like, this panic attack, like, on the 202. I’m just like, ‘What the heck is wrong with me?’ And, you know, going into my office and making, like, those two phone calls, it really just kind of changed everything. Like, I called my husband, I’m like, ‘I’m coming home because I think I’m going crazy.’ And I called a local psychologist, and I’m like, ‘I need to be seen today, because I think I’m going crazy.’ Like, I didn’t know what was going on with me. Or maybe it’s more so I didn’t want to admit what was going on with me, because it took a while for me to get to that place. Because I just kind of kept ignoring that I was human and, you know, listening to my body.


And I think that’s the thing that probably resonates the most when I share that story when I’m speaking or just kind of talking to people, because they’re usually sitting there looking at me, like, that’s how I feel. Like, that’s how I feel right now. And it’s, like, yeah. So, what do you want to do about it? Do you want to continue feeling that way, or do you want to start doing some things a little bit differently?


It’s In the Ordinary: Removing the Resistance to Self-Care

Pamela Slim  20:11

I feel like that’s one of your key phrases said in different tones, depending on how many times you have said it, which is: what are you going to do about it? It gets increasingly clear – let’s just say clear – the more times that you say it, which I love. That’s really part of this advocacy role that I think that you play, certainly within our relationship, but I also know within many other relationships.


And the topic of self-care, it is something that can feel a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Especially women, in my experience, who can be busy, have so many things going, it can feel impossible with all the things that you need to get done for yourself and then for other loved ones and the family to really know how that can be the case. Why do you think that people resist self-care? And how do you help them remove that resistance?


La’Vista Jones  21:11

There’s a few reasons, right? Like, the common things that I hear is, you know, self-care takes too much time. Or self-care is too expensive. Or I don’t even know what to do for self-care. And probably, like, the top one I hear is that I don’t want to feel guilty, right? Like, I don’t want to feel, like, selfish for taking this time to do this, like, when my family needs this or, like, I need to do this for work.


And part of that, I think, is that we tend to think of self-care as, like, this additional thing on our to-do list that we need to do. And so, if, like, you’re already busy, and you know, you got to work on this report, or you got to do this, and you got to get this out to a client, and it’s like, that’s just one more thing I’ve got to check off my box. I don’t have time for that. And that’s where even the way that we’re looking at self-care has to shift. It’s like, it’s not something on your to-do list; it’s a way that you’re…like, it’s your lifestyle. It’s the way that you were just kind of, like, living your life but doing it in a way that prioritizes yourself and takes care of yourself, right?


And it doesn’t have to be, like, this grandiose, like, gesture that you’re doing. It’s real simple. It can be really simple, most of the time, even completely free things that you’re doing. It just has to be…you just have to make the conscious decision that, like, this is what I’m going to do. And I’m going to do it and celebrate the fact that you’re doing it because this is what I need. This is a need that I have that I’m taking care of by doing X, Y, and Z.


You know, just, like, some of the couple examples I gave at the beginning, like, having lunch. Like, some people won’t necessarily think, like, that’s self-care. Like, for me it is. For me, it is. Taking time away from my desk, right, because I was so conditioned and brought this into, like, my, you know, into my work as a business owner, to sit and just work while I’m eating, right? If I took, like, any time to, like, eat at all, right? So, having a time where I’m, like, ‘Okay, I’m gonna walk away. I’m gonna walk away from this computer. I’m not going to have meetings for this half an hour, or this 20 minutes, or whatever it is, and I’m gonna go feed myself.’ Like, that’s self-care that you’re doing on a consistent basis.


Um, you know, I talk about, you know, a work candle that, like, I use in the office. Like, that’s a very simple thing to do to just kind of set the atmosphere for your workspace, right? I use it in a way to kind of…in a ritual kind of way. I light it when I sit down to start working, and I blow it out when work is over to signify, like, I’m done. Right? And so, that’s actually been a helpful thing that some people have started using that transition to working from home, like, because of the pandemic. They’re like, I don’t know how to separate, like, my work and, like, my home and, like, whatever we’re going to do. And it’s like, this might help, to do one of those kinds of things.


And so, like, those…just kind of using those examples, it just illustrates, like, it doesn’t have to be, and it shouldn’t be, this thing for you to check off. It’s what do I already do that I just need to acknowledge is actually taking care of myself? Do some more of those things, explore maybe some other ways to get that care and figure out how you can get that from your business. Because there are very specific things, like, very specific systems that can be set up that actually will nurture you as a business owner as well. Especially, you know, if you are in tune with, like, your love languages, totally, you know, ways to build your business in a way that, like, makes you experience that love language, like, every day just by doing, like, the day-to-day operations in your company.


Pamela Slim  25:01

I’ve noticed a really big difference. And you’ve done some work with me on the back end of starting with really looking at the onboarding process with clients and just automating some of the components of how it is that that process flows from connecting with a client, to then inviting them into a coaching engagement, and then when they agree, to send them a contract automatically. And just from a day-to-day stress perspective. And also from the perspective of wanting so deeply to have a timely, organized way in which people felt like they were being followed up upon. It just was holding too many details in my head, and then I would beat myself up for not remembering or slipping on one place. So, I…that definitely makes a difference.


And just the more that we’ve done work on the back end – as you know, my love for Notion – putting in place more of a central place for the business where I really have information organized. It does actually bring me joy. And the more time that goes on, it feels like self-care to be just doing more and more organization for the business, because then I know what I’m doing; I can get a big picture. And as we’ve grown the team, I’m also responsible for making sure that other members of the team have that access to information. So, it’s just can have a very concrete feeling of well-being.


And then I love the examples you were giving about ways to think about self-care that may not be traditional. I was just thinking sometimes for me…my daughter, Angie, and I always laugh, because we have different…we’re wired differently for times in which we’re the most awake. For me, it’s usually about 5am until 10am. And then, of course, I can I can operate throughout the day. Get to about seven o’clock, and I start to shut down. Get to about nine, and I really shut down. What’s the time that Angie often comes bounding in my room with enthusiasm to help her with her homework? Is about 9 PM. And part of our dialogue in supporting each other, which is self-care for me, is not then going to bed totally stressed and late because we’ve waited for her to have some help with her homework. And that can be boundaries; it can be communication. Because I do want to honor, also, her, actually, ironically, her rest. She will rest and sleep after she gets home from high school because she’s so exhausted. And I don’t want to, you know, cut that off.


So, it’s just interesting to see it in dialectic on a day-to-day basis of how operational changes can make me feel better. And then sometimes self-care is boundaries with the family and loved ones.


La’Vista Jones  27:42

The example that you gave, right, with Notion, like, it’s finding joy in the ordinary. Like, every business owner has tools, right, that they’re using. Like, did you ever think, really, right, that, like, logging in to something like Notion, in your own words, would bring you joy?


Pamela Slim  27:59

Well, I am a Virgo. But yeah, I did not really see it coming to the level of enthusiasm that I have, I will say.


La’Vista Jones  28:07

Yes. So it’s those it’s those little things, right, and you’re doing those things on purpose. That’s not something that you’re checking off, you know. Like, okay, like looked at Notion. Like, it’s how you…it’s something you use to run your business, right. So, it’s those little shifts that you’re making that it’s just like, “Oh, like, this feels better. This doesn’t, you know, put so much weight on my shoulders to, like, do this process. Like, doing this process actually makes me happy.” It’s possible, I promise.


The BOSS Manifesto

Pamela Slim  28:38

I love that. Well, I was wondering, do you happen to have your manifesto from the book handy?


La’Vista Jones  28:46

Actually, I do.


Pamela Slim  28:48

I should have asked you before we started, but I thought, does she have it memorized? Does she have it handy? I would laugh sometimes when being interviewed for my books, where people would say, “Well, tell me about the four-part process and chapter four of Body of Work.” And I would say to myself, ‘I have no idea.’ So now I always keep the book in front of me.


La’Vista Jones  29:07

I actually have it right here. So that’s so funny. But yeah, I do not have it memorized, though.

Pamela Slim  29:13

I love that. Well, I thought it could be a timely way to end the conversation we have today, is just for you to read it aloud. I remember really getting chills the first time I heard it, but I would love to have people hear it in your words.


La’Vista Jones  29:30

I’d love to. Thank you. So, this is The BOSS Manifesto.


I am done glorifying busyness. Busyness is not the new chic. It is not business goals or a cause for celebration. I will no longer be a complacent participant in the unrealistic expectation that sleepless nights, exhaustion, overbooked schedules, and inner turmoil are the only ways to show how capable I am. I am actively cultivating my own culture of work-life balance. I am empowered to take a step back and rest when my body, mind, and spirit whisper for me to do so. Burnout is not my final destination. I am no longer blurring the line between ambition and self-endangerment in the name of achieving success. I am defining and achieving success on my own terms. I hold myself to a standard of excellence and grace, not perfection. I ask for and receive help when I need it, without shame. I am becoming fluent in self-compassion. I am committed to infusing my own well-being into the way I live my life and balance my work within it. I declare that the work I do and the way I do it will nourish me. I am building systems fortified with self-sustaining routines that create moments to breathe. Each day, I give myself permission to use my time, my energy, and my resources to take care of myself, simply because I am worth it.


Pamela Slim  31:22

Yes. I hope folks can really take that in and then rewind and listen again. Because it’s so powerful to hear it described that way. Really is more of a revolutionary and liberatory call, I think, to a new way of being, that the beautiful part of that is it really is revolutionary and liberating when you actually put it into practice, which I think your book lays out so clearly. Just specific ways that you can really implement it. It’s not, like you said, just an action item that you need to check off. It will transform the way that you think about your life and your business. So, I’m really thankful for the gift of your book.


La’Vista Jones  32:06

Thank you so much, Pam. You’re not gonna make me cry on your podcast, though.


Connect with La’Vista Jones

Pamela Slim  32:11

Well, it wouldn’t be podcast if I didn’t make you cry. No, maybe not this time. Well, for folks who are listening, where can they find your new book BOSS Shift? And then how can they also learn about working with you?


La’Vista Jones  32:24

Yeah, so they can go to And they can learn more about the book there, and they can purchase a copy there as well. And if they are interested in working with me, they can go to my website And I’m everywhere on social media just as La’Vista Jones.


Pamela Slim  32:48

I love it. Well, thank you for being the first guest for season two.


La’Vista Jones  32:51

Yay. Thank you for having me. I can’t wait for my team to make this a thing.


Pamela Slim  32:58

Now you will see the back-end of production on this very episode.


La’Vista Jones  33:01

I’m sure. Like I said what?! Okay.


Pamela Slim  33:05

I love that. Well, I appreciate you in so many ways, and I really can’t wait to see the transformations that will happen due to your book being out in the world. Congratulations.


La’Vista Jones  33:13

Thank you so much, Pam.

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