We welcome Zain Meghji to this episode, a seasoned creative professional in the entertainment industry with over two decades of experience. From interviewing global icons like Oprah and Beyoncé to hosting television shows across Canada and the US, Zain has honed his ability to connect authentically with diverse audiences.
Here’s the transcript:
Pamela Slim
00:00:04
Welcome to another episode of the Widest Net podcast. I’m your host, Pamela Slim, and I am joined today by my guest, Zain Meghji. Welcome, Zain.
Zain Meghji
00:00:15
Thank you. Do you say thank you to a welcome. Welcome, Zain.
Pamela Slim
00:00:20
Thank you for welcoming me, Pam. Well, clearly we know each other, but many people may not. They will be excited to after this. Let me just introduce you with some of your background. You are a professional creative in the entertainment industry with over 20 years of experience, from interviewing Oprah to Beyonce, Will Smith to Lady Gaga on entertainment news shows, to hosting breakfast television in Vancouver and Calgary, that’s Canada. Yahoo News in New York, and How to Look Good Naked Canada, an award winning makeover show which aired in multiple countries around the world. Zain has been a high school drama teacher in England, studied and taught yoga in Manhattan, and worked in Bollywood in Mumbai, starting in computer science with a scholarship. He holds a degree in theater studies from the University of British Columbia. He currently works in Vancouver as a Director of Creative Strategy and Audience Development, advising and leading a team that grows YouTube channels for BBTV’s global entertainment enterprise partners including movie studios and television networks. How cool. Well, welcome to the show.
Zain Meghji
00:01:29
Thank you.
Pamela Slim
00:01:32
You do sound good. It’s amazing.
Zain Meghji
00:01:35
Like and subscribe.
Pamela Slim
00:01:37
So a lot of folks, including me, are jumping on the bandwagon, or I should say back on the bandwagon for me, of podcasts or videocasts as content beacons. Many have an interview format. And so when I think about hosting celebrity interviews, it kind of doesn’t get bigger than Oprah and Beyonce. So what does it take to prep for an interview like that, both personally and professionally?
Zain Meghji
00:02:03
Oh, wow. Personally, it’s interesting. So the Beyonce one was early. It was like her what album was that? Four? No, it wasn’t four. I am Sasha Fierce. I am Sasha Fierce. So she hadn’t even Beyonce and I are like good friends. She hadn’t really come into her own back in that day. But it’s true. It’s like she had that duality thing coming where she had to assume a character. So it’s actually it’d be interesting. And not that she’d ever answered this question because she’s also very guarded about these things, but it’s like, what did she have to do to prepare and how do you become a different person and a different persona? For myself, I think that when I’m an interviewer and I’m on camera, as soon as the record button goes on, I become a heightened version of Zain. And it’s not to say that it’s an authentic version. It is a version of me that I wouldn’t sustain for, like 24/7. That’s crazy. I would be exhausted. So people, when they’re like, oh, you think you consider yourself an introvert? And I’m like, yeah. I like quiet. Well, you can’t see, but if you saw the video of this right now, chaos around me like, there’s so much shit. And it’s just like, well, you just need to be calm. And so I try to be calm when I’m not performing. So I think it’s like finding that duality of switching and being on and rising to their energy with the Oprah thing, I was just so damn excited. So it was an interesting thing. My brother and I, my brother is also a television host and a keynote speaker and an author. And we were co-hosting the red carpet for the Toronto International Film Festival, what was that, 2009? And she had just signed on to be a producer for Precious with Tyler Perry. And so she was like a last minute addition. I’m like, oh my God, I finally get to interview Oprah. Because Oprah is like those of you who remember the show for 25 years, she was like, everybody’s therapist and best friend and teacher. And it’s like, you get one moment, one question. So it’s like, what’s the question you ask, right? Especially on a red carpet. It’s much harder on a red carpet versus an extended interview like we’re about to have right now. So it’s like trying to be intelligent, insightful. And my thing is, when I get to do an interview, I always want to have something that’s funny, something that’s going to make people laugh, and something that is going to maybe even make people cry. And that’s hard to do when you do a junket interview, and you have, like four minutes. But if you can hit those emotions, those sensations, I think that’s what’s great in an interview. It’s also what’s great about content, as you talked about making content for podcasts and videos and whatnot it’s like, are you making people feel something, think something, do something? And I think that’s like the relatable takeaway, because not everyone’s going to sit down with a big celebrity. But it’s like, when you do something, can it matter? And it can just be fun and enjoyable. And that in itself is worth the matter in itself.
Pamela Slim
00:04:53
Do you happen to remember the question you asked? I know I think it’s in your reel that I’ve seen before. We could definitely link to it in the show notes. But do you remember what the question was that you asked her?
Zain Meghji
00:05:03
Which one? Oprah.
Pamela Slim
00:05:04
For Oprah? Yeah.
Zain Meghji
00:05:05
Oprah. Yes. It was the preamble first. So I was like, oh my God, Oprah. Should I be nervous? No, we were live. And she’s like, I’m live. And she did the oprah. And then I was like, Are you nervous? And she’s like, no. And I said, should I be nervous? She’s like, no, no, you’re good, you’re good. And you could tell. She’s like, boy, calm down. And I was obviously wearing purple, like I’m wearing right now. And she was wearing purple, right? Because look, I love purple. And then ramble, ramble, ramble about the movie. And then I said, Precious made a decision to, and if those of you guys remember the movie from 2009, Mariah Carey played the social worker, Gabourey Sidibe, who is hilarious. She played breakfast, but it was a dark, dark. Monique played her mom in the movie dark film. Difficult content, but it was really about choosing your life. What do you want your life to be? So I asked Oprah, When did you know you were going to be the Oprah Winfrey that you are today? And then she was like, oh, that’s a good question. On the red carpet, that’s a woo woo question. I was like, who do you think I am? And then she’s probably like, I don’t know who you are. That’s why. Who are you? Calm down. Right? And it’s actually funny. It’s actually funny because I clipped that recently and put it up as a YouTube short, like, ten years later. And some lady wrote that. She’s like, why would Oprah be nervous? Who are you? And I’m like, that’s the point of the clip. Julie Smith, whatever the lady’s name was, can you like my my one troll? And I remember her name. I don’t know if that’s her name, but anyways, and then I wrote her back, and then she was nice, and I was like, okay, we’re all calm. That’s a good question. And then she thought about it, and then she just said, I just knew. And I was like, what kind of answer is that? You just knew. But as I grew and over the years, I think that in itself is the answer. You just know. You just know who you are supposed to be, what you’re meant to do, what you are to do. But you have to listen to that. And in the moment and the hype and the red carpet, I’m like, that’s not the glowy answer I wanted, but it was the answer we needed.
Pamela Slim
00:07:15
Over time. That’s so deep and just it is interesting imagining that you would have I would just have so many nerves. But it’s fun. One of the things I like and just looking at the clip of seeing you in front of celebrities over the years, is that there is this, like you said, a bit of Zain Plus, right? Like, just your good high energy engagement, helping to make folks laugh, like, feel relaxed. When I can imagine from the celebrity side, it’s probably not the favorite thing to do. To be sitting in a chair for, like, 13 hours when they’re repping a movie and just creating more of the environment and the vibe that makes people feel good, I think is one of your gifts that I’ve seen that really comes off in the conversation. And I think getting people to open up.
Zain Meghji
00:07:59
Thank you.
Pamela Slim
00:08:00
So knowing that in your job, a lot of what you do is to help pretty big brands grow their YouTube audience and I imagine kind of content in general. So what kinds of advice do you and your team give brands? Where do you even start when somebody comes saying that they want to be growing their YouTube audience?
Zain Meghji
00:08:27
You know what? It’s tricky. There’s advice you give an enterprise brand and there’s advice that you give like a solo creator.
Pamela Slim
00:08:40
Yeah, and I want both, actually. So go. Yeah, tell me about both.
Zain Meghji
00:08:44
Well, the first one, it’s a different game because they have legal restrictions. It’s ironic. They own the property, but their legal team, sometimes they have loopholes. Not loopholes, they have the opposite of a loophole, restrictions that impede them, whereas user generated content, they don’t have those blocks. Which is kind of ironic. But I think it comes down to, for both scenarios, I always ask the question, what’s your point? What’s your point in a flippant manner, but in an actual, like a tactical manner, in the flippant manner, it’s like, what is your point? Get to the point. Or in the game of life, how are you keeping score? What are the points that you’re like, okay, well, we won that round. Or when you start thinking about KPIs key performance indicators, what are the milestones that we’re trying to hit? Right in the game we’re playing? What’s the point system? Also, I guess, in the esoteric sense of it, it’s like, what’s the point of it all? What does matter? Right? And same thing as I said earlier, when you do an interview about how do you make it matter? How do you make it resonate? Well, what is the point of it all? Why are we here? What are we doing? But really, why are you here? What are you doing? Right? It can be very soul affirming and also just really sassy that question. And I think that that’s what we need to ask is like, what is the point? Why are you doing this? Are you trying to grow a business? Are you trying to make a name for yourself? Are you just trying to have fun? These are all valid, but you just need to be clear about that. And then it’s a matter of then being consistent. Everyone says that, but it’s so true. Okay, so this is the thing. Rules are repeated because they are or stereotypes are enforced because there’s roots in them. Right? So it’s like success leaves clues. And so when people say, you got to be consistent and authentic, okay, cool, you’ve heard that. But then after a while, it gets said so many times that it loses its original meaning and means nothing now because it means so much to so many different people and there’s so many nuances. But I think the idea is, who is this for? Who is it from? So say you, Pamela Slim, you listener, are doing this. What is your voice and who is it for? Say, for example, you and I are both going to do a book review or a TV show review. It’s going to be the same book, we kind of have similar minded thoughts on approaching things and world lifestyle views. It’s going to be completely different, right? Because we’re different people and we have different points of views and we’re different points of our lives and different points of reference. And that’s okay. And that’s what you bring into that in terms of, like, what’s your point of view and then who is it for? Who are you trying to reach with this content? And then you just gotta do it consistently. Like when I mentioned the thing is like a clip, the short from the Oprah interview, I haven’t posted anything on my personal YouTube channel in such a long time because my work has been doing it for other people or doing it for other companies. So that’s where all the clips live. So when you just show up and put this random clip, of course somebody’s going to chirp at me and be like, who are you? Even though I’m like, how did you even find this content? Because if you don’t do it consistently, it doesn’t get found, right? You have to keep sending signals out. That’s the consistency. And then also paired with that authenticity thing and there’s like so many granular steps to get into it. And it depends on what your situation is, what you’re trying to achieve, going back to the what’s your point and how you want to achieve it, in what timeline and what’s your capacity, what are your resources. Lots of things to think about, but I think generally those are the two things. It’s like your point of view and your point system.
Pamela Slim
00:12:40
Yeah, I think about it. I wish I knew who was the source of the quote that common sense is rarely common practice. But it’s really true that I often say the same things for years on end. Just ask my children and my clients. We often look for a glamorous, sexy shortcut, something where I know in the case of tiny marketing actions, which I’m fond of talking about when building a business, I see the intersection of being strategic, about really thinking about who it is that you’re creating content for. And especially if you’re somebody who’s been around for a while, shall I say, like you and I have been in the business world, just online, that there are deliberate times often where you do shift your focus or you shift your audience. And I find myself and actually I’m going through a stage right now that’s a bit of a shift in terms of the kind of work that I’ve been doing that’s more focused in more of an agency type work. So working with thought leaders that have scalable IP, where we’re really working on licensing or certification programs. I’ve worked with clients on things like that in the past, but it’s a bit of a different perspective and there are new audience segments. And so just thinking about that question, like who am I really talking to forward can be really helpful because I know who I’ve talked to in the past and I find that’s sometimes where my clients or folks I talk to get a little bit of a miss, they’re like, But I’m being consistent. I’m doing my tiny marketing actions. But then when we look at what they’re creating and what the messages or maybe what the examples are, they’re not fitting with the audience that they’re really looking to attract in the future.
Zain Meghji
00:14:30
Yeah, it’s like, who are you talking to? One thing that I was really never good at doing back in the day when I was a television entertainment reporter is talking to one person down there, not a camera. I’m talking to you, and I’m talking to you, but other people are going to listen, who aren’t you? But you got to talk to one person and whoever you want that to be, make that your ideal person. They talk about being the audience avatar. And it doesn’t mean that no one else is going to listen to you or no one else is going to consume the content or see it. But be specific in who you’re trying to reach and that can evolve and that can adapt. Right. Like even when we talk about YouTube, it’s like you do it for a while and you can look in the data and see what are the age ranges and what is the gender, even though it’s not super specific. Because it’s like broad strokes, but the geography, the age, the gender. And you’re like, is that in line with what I’m trying to reach? And then how do you modify that? You tweak that, but you just gotta start somewhere. And sometimes you let data drive it. And I’m also kind of a person. You’re like, my gut feel this is who I want to reach, so I’m just going to do this. And then you’re like, well, does this resonate? Does this sit well with me? And you’re always allowed to pivot, you’re always allowed to do that. It’s up to you.
Pamela Slim
00:15:37
I love that because we’re friends. We’ve known each other a long time. I do know that you have, shall we say, strongly discerned opinions about what makes content both educational and entertaining. I feel like that in conversations that you can see something you really like and you are very exuberant about it. And then if you don’t like something, it usually is clear to me that you don’t enjoy it. So I’m curious, when you’re just a consumer of content out there on the interwebs, what do you love and hate to see in social content, video and beyond? Is there anything like that you look for, you notice or that bothers you?
Zain Meghji
00:16:25
Yeah, for sure. Again, it’s tricky. I think my biggest challenge is speaking in generalities, where I’m like, now, let me crawl through the entire archives of my mind and think of what brings me joy and what annoys me.
Pamela Slim
00:16:41
So here’s a factor to make it more specific, which is like, let’s say you want to learn something. You’re searching for information on a topic because you’re like, I need to know how to do this thing. And then you find a range of stuff. What do you love and what do you not love?
Zain Meghji
00:16:58
Okay, so here now, this goes back to what I said earlier about what’s your point? It’s like, get to the point. Get to the point. Like ironically, I work a lot in video and on camera and blah, blah, blah. I don’t like watching videos. You know why? Because people take too goddamn my time to get to the point. What is your point? Get to the point. And that’s always why, when I construct a video or I tell someone, I help someone construct a video, I’m always like, put the teaser before the trailer. Show me what you’re going to tell me. Then show it to me. Then tell me what you showed me. Right? I don’t know if this is a thing, but we all know show and tell from, like, childhood. But that’s the technique. Just show me. Then tell me. Then show me again. And then tell me and how’s that going. Tell me what you’re going to show me. Tell me and then tell me what you told me.
Pamela Slim
00:17:46
Yes, I think yes.
Zain Meghji
00:17:50
People don’t. But again, sometimes you’re just watching it to be entertaining. But if I’m watching something to be entertained, then I still kind of need to know what I’m getting into. Because the last show that I kind of really was dedicated to watching was The White Lotus. That show is hella stressful to watch, especially the finale. Those of you who don’t know, I won’t spoil anything. I have not watched it. You haven’t? Oh, you just only watch it. Jennifer Coolidge is delightful.
Pamela Slim
00:18:21
I don’t like to be stressed when I’m watching. I like really tame romcoms and, like, boring stuff. I know life is stressful enough. I don’t need extra. But say more. Say more about your experience with apocalypse.
Zain Meghji
00:18:33
This is why I won’t watch The Last of US on HBO, because I don’t want to watch another apocalyptic show. We have enough problems in the world. I don’t need to watch pretend apocalypse. And that’s why it’s like, also, people are like, oh, it’s so authentic to the video game. I’m like that video game sounds stressful, too. No, thank you. But White Lotus, it’s like because the tension was building in the last episode, if you knew what was going to happen, it wouldn’t be, I guess. Would it be as enjoyable? I’m not sure. But it’s like, I don’t want to be stressed out from the entertainment I’m watching. But also when I’m trying to learn something, I’m like, just make it clear. Make it clear and try not to be clever. That’s also when it comes to content creation. Just be clear. Don’t be clever. But that said, always play to the height of your audience’s intelligence. And now this works in many different ways because years ago, when I was living for a bit in West Hollywood, I had taken some classes at Upright Citizens Brigade. Upright Citizens Brigade, that was Amy Poehler’s and her friends, had started an improv school, and the teacher, I forget his last name. Johnny. Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. Something he said. And there’s always and I love this line he said to the class. It was like level 101. Always play to the height of your audience’s intelligence. And a lot of times, people don’t do that because you don’t want to be. So take that back. If you aren’t an expert in something, you gotta remember that other people aren’t that they aren’t that expert. I do it myself. I take it for granted when we talk when you said common sense is common practice, common sense to us is not common practice for somebody who wants to learn what we’re doing right? Same thing with somebody else who is a tradesperson or whatever skill that I do not possess. That is not common sense to me. I wouldn’t know to do that. I don’t know what I don’t know until I know that I don’t know it. So until you tell me that I don’t know it, I don’t know it. So it’s not common sense to me, so it won’t be common practice. So sometimes if you speak over people and just assume they know, then they’ll miss the point. But if you dumb it down so much, then sometimes it’s good because I’m like, I need a step by step explanation. But remove the fluff. Like, I have one of those foldable backdrops. You know those, like, ones? I don’t know if you guys have those where it’s like you have to unfold it, and then if you do it right, it folds into a circle. Those things are a bitch to close. I always forget, and I hate opening. And when I finally do, I’m like, oh, man, I got to close it. And then UT stays open for weeks, and I try to find it on YouTube, and I can never find a video. I like, some people tell me their goddamn life story of how they bought the thing, how they chose this color. I’m like, Just show me how to fold the thing. I don’t care about what’s your story afterwards, if I like you enough, then maybe I will listen to how you bought that backdrop. But right now, I just need to know how to fold this backdrop in 20 seconds.
Pamela Slim
00:21:23
People say that about recipe videos, too. They’re like, I don’t want to know the story of when your grandmother first taught you how to pick apples from the tree. You’re like, I Googled how to bake an apple pie in 15 minutes or less. And so it reminds me, hopefully my kids don’t listen to my podcast. So sorry if you do, but it’s like when kids are littler and they take 20 minutes to get to the point of a story and inside you’re trying to look like a super engaged parent and inside your head is screaming like, what’s your point? Could you please get to the point? But they’ve not yet learned the discernment about details needed and not needed. And it just makes you want to scream. So it’s, it’s, again, like, very core advice we’ve probably heard, but give the people what they want. And I like the challenge in a way. If you do it in a straightforward way, give the answer. Here’s the shortcut, here’s how to fold the damn thing. I have one of those too. I have the same problem. So show people right away, step by step, and maybe have a visual description. And then if you can compel them, like, did you know about ways you can use that foldable green screen to do this? And people might say, oh, wow, let me learn more. And that could bring people into the video. But I think about it more. I always feel duped. I feel this way about TikTok videos too, because I just will mindlessly scroll sometimes and somebody’s like, does this long background thing and then doesn’t even get to the point at all. Or it turns into part two or part three or part four, and it makes me feel duped and I get mad. So I think people feel that way about content. So don’t do that. So get to the point. Give the people what they want up front. I imagine it does have a little bit of an impact if we want people to stay on videos longer, et cetera. Do you think there’s a market? Let’s talk now for an audience that would be professional service folks who are creating content for their business. Like, we’ve heard you should do everything you can to make people stay on your site longer or watch videos longer. Do you think it would impact that if you were very clear, compelling to the point, meaning a negative impact of just giving people what they want in a short form?
Zain Meghji
00:23:42
This is what the service is. I think what I’ll say is, show me what I signed up for. It goes back to even, like, TV shows, right? People know why they would tune in. Like back in the day, those who watch television on a network’s schedule, not on a streamer where it just shows up. But even when I mentioned those other shows, Last of US, Last of US and White Lotus, is that, you know, Sunday nights sort of I don’t know what time they come on because of time zone differences, right? So I’m just like, vaguely around 07:00 Eastern Pacific, it’ll be on the streaming service. But it’s like back in the day, when there was network scheduled programming, you would tune in because you knew this show would come on. You like this premise. You like these characters. You want this storyline, right? So I think Friends is still the show that’s endured through the Zeitgeist, despite all the things that are probably problematic about Friends these days. But it’s like, you know, you’re like Thursday nights at 08:00, you’re going to tune in to watch these six people hang out in an oversized apartment in Manhattan or a coffee shop and do dumb things. Cutely dumb things, right? And you know what you’re signing up for that is different than, say, a business that’s doing stuff. But let’s use that backdrop as an example. You can say, hey, I’m going to show you how to fold this, but I’m going to tell you why we picked this product and some other ones. Stick around, blah, blah, blah. Show me the thing and be like, okay, cool. Now that you did this, do you know that this is why this is the best product or why there’s a better version of this? Or click here for this video to learn more, but solve the thing I came for, right? And if you’re compelling enough or they like you enough, give them a reason to stick around but also deliver to them the reason they came there in the first place.
Pamela Slim
00:25:31
Yeah, that’s really helpful. I think with any content, same even just with written content, summarizing it up front. I really like that.
Zain Meghji
00:25:40
Even with that recipe thing, it’s just like, give me the recipe. Give me the recipe. And then later tell me why this is significant or why if I swap out this ingredient for that. And why is this culturally relevant and why my ancestors chose this spice. And you’re like, cool. Thanks, but I just wanted to make that’s right.
Pamela Slim
00:26:01
Or getting to the point where, you know, you’re popping the pie in the oven and then it’s like, well, you’re waiting for it to cook. Did you know that this recipe comes from my amazing great grandma? And you’re like, oh, let me watch this while I’m waiting for it to cook. So thinking about the experience of your audience like you were saying, what they’re really looking for and then getting to the point feels like a through line for what we’ve talked about so far. I know you talk a lot about creativity and diversity through a lens of the intersection between pop culture and personal development. I know you love pop culture as I do. Talk to us about your own personal development mentor, Janet Jackson.
Zain Meghji
00:26:43
You know what? It’s interesting, I think, that I read somewhere this is two interesting things, and this has nothing to do with Janet Jackson, but they say that the song that was number one on the Billboard charts when you were 14 becomes the soundtrack to your life or sets the tone for the rest of your life. So those of you listening, either press pause. And go look that up or remember to this later. But for me, it was between, like, I think the week before was Losing My Religion by REM. And then the next week, I forget. But the week of my birthday in 1992 was Coming Out of the Dark by Gloria Estefan. It was number one for one week. And that was the song that she recorded when she was in that car in that bus crash. It and I just thought that was so interesting, the idea of coming out and shining light and being the light. A lot of times when we think of the idea of a guru, everyone’s like, I’m a social media guru. And I’m like, are you? And Robin Sharma wrote in his book, one of his books, a guru is literally defined as someone who dispels darkness. And I love that idea. And even, like, in the idea of pop culture and entertainment, it’s like you’re shining light. You step into the spotlight, you get a green light giving yourself or giving someone else permission to do the work. And I love that. When we think about Janet Jackson, I was a big Michael Jackson fan, and he’s been canceled and uncancelled and canceled and Rest in peace, but controversial. But his music was I think everyone reacted so strongly to all the stuff that happened with him because his music was the soundtrack of the 80s. I never saw him live. I remember my dad, when he was with us, told us that, my brother and I, that he tried to get his tickets once to go see him when he’d come to BC Place. He tried he’s like, we tried to get scalper tickets and everyone wanted too much money. And I was like, you know, as an adult now I know the tricks, how to make this happen. You wait till the opening act with three songs in or whatever, but we never saw him. But my first concert ever was Janet Jackson. And I was working at a record store called HMV and it was in a mall. It was like my first real job and got tickets, and I went with my bestie from high school. And I think I’ve seen every version of her concert since. But her music, as it evolves from being, like, gaining independence, the Control album, Rhythm Nation, cultural values, and doing something that matters. The Janet album was a sexual awakening, Velvet Rope, which is about mental health, All For You, which was kind of like the celebratory. And then the stuff that happened after the Super Bowl, which is like, that’s a whole other mess, too, of how she was treated and whatnot. And I’ll never be a fan of Justin Timberlake or Les Moonves, the head of CBS at the time, ever again. Not that I was ever a fan of him in the first place, but all of the things she’s done and the music she’s done has been the soundtrack for my life. And I think a lot of people have that, too. It’s like when we talk about that 14 year old era, it’s like the music that we knew when we were 14 is the stuff that we always love. Right. Because that was our formative years. So even if you think back and you listen to stuff now, it’s like, are the music that different? Like you think of it, that song by Latto Big Big Energy is really a remake of Mariah Carey’s song Fantasy, which was a remake of Tom Tom Club. It’s like the same thing every, like, 20/30 years. But we love what we love from those formative years. And I think that Janet, even though she’s a very soft spoken person, her music and the people that she’s collaborated with make bold, powerful imagery and sounds that, like I said, are the soundtrack to my life and can also be used as catalysts for thought. So it’s not just like, I enjoy this, but it’s also like, what’s the message behind that? And it goes back to the content thing. It’s like, you can make things flashy and dynamic, but again, it’s like, what are you making people think, feel or do with that content or with that art?
Pamela Slim
00:30:59
Yeah. And it does influence me. I do love music. I often think of Mary J. Blige, a little bit later, I have to go look up for my 14th birthday to see what was that week, and, you know, my longtime fandom of John Legend, but like, Mary J. Blige, just different stages of my life. Like, her albums have so mirrored what was happening. And I think in Body of Work, I called it the full color, full contact life. Part of what I feel like allows me to tap into my voice, my feeling, my mission. Purpose about the work is being surrounded by great art in many forms. And sometimes I think we think of pop culture or people can minimize it, it’s all just manufactured, or they’re just these people who are doing this work. But just for me, it really has been so meaningful and significant to see the role that pop culture, musicians, actors can play in your life. We need to be discerning about, you know, kind of who we’re listening to. But I look at my daughter now, I’m going to be a cool mom coming up this weekend because I’m taking my daughter and her friends to the SZA concert. So I just see the way they get swept away by joy, like deep meaning and purpose. It’s just bringing such great joy to their lives. So it is interesting to me hearing you talk about it as part of the way you’ve reflected and thought about your own life and being supported by the soundtracks that are created by great artists like Janet Jackson. But also as a content creator, as people who are trying to tap into something deeper, maybe something lighter, when you can see people who might be more silly or move more or things like that. I find that it helps to loosen folks up. So I don’t know if you see any crossover. It’s a little meta for you because you literally work with large entertainment establishments who are creating the art. But do you see any of that in kind of the influence that people have if they’re not just looking in their own lane of what’s happening in their business lane, but also looking elsewhere for inspiration, for content?
Zain Meghji
00:33:15
Well, I think the thing about pop culture and also even when we talk about personal development and iconic books, books that ideas, things that resonate Ted Talks, books, movies, stuff that we all know, things that are in the zeitgeist, it brings us together because there’s a commonality there. And like I said, when we talk about stuff that is so well known that it becomes a stereotype, then it gets so well known that it loses its meaning. It’s like, well it’s because it hit a level in the zeitgeist, in the social conscious that we all understand it to the point that we all now have an interpretation of it. But when it first comes there is that commonality to it, right? That brings us all together. And that’s kind of what I like about it, that we all have our own interpretations of it. And like you said too, it’s like these entertainers are not messiahs, they’re not leaders, they’re just idea presenters and interpret whatever that idea is usually love or like some kind of unrest or whatever the opposite of feelings settle, insecurity maybe, but they’re thinking about the idea of I want different, this is going deep. But it’s like we all relate to that, right? And that’s what sometimes when you talk about you’re going to go to this concert, it’s like what brings people together. It’s the commonalities that bring people together. But we’re all still so different in our interpretations and our appreciation of these things. But there is still that through line and that thread of commonality.
Pamela Slim
00:35:00
I love it. Yeah, I’m very excited. Plus we’re going to San Diego so we’ll have the golden hour selfie photos on the beach. It’s going to be an epic thing, adventure. I will be a fun mom for about four days. So we’ll mark it, I guess as a final question, you definitely have a way of engaging an audience online and your friends in a way that’s really compelling. You got me and my best friend Desiree to actually act and dance in a YouTube video, which we may have to link in the show notes. Embarrassingly, but that was a miracle because Desiree, first of all, never does stuff like that. So when you are in front of a live audience, when you’re on stage, how do you think about engagement? You talked about becoming a bit of a more hyped version of yourself. Is there anything that you prepare for as more of a performer and a speaker on stage that helps to engage with the audience.
Zain Meghji
00:35:55
I love this. And I love this as the last question because this is something I’m so excited about to talk about right now. There’s two things because this happened recently. Well, not so recently, but it ties into the concert thing, too. Because I admit when you talk about being a cool mom, I’m not a cool mom because I don’t really know SZA/s work, which is shit because appreciating Janet and appreciating Lizzo, who I’m going to tell a story about. It’s like I should know SZA’s work. I once interviewed Shea Coulee. Shea Coulee is she was on one of them. Are we still here?
Pamela Slim
00:36:37
Yes.
Zain Meghji
00:36:38
Okay, good. I just pressing these. Okay. So, yeah, I know you’re like one tape wonder here, but it’s like these new headphones I have. I was going to buy the Kim Kardashian ones, but I bought them this color. They do not fit well, and I always want to tap them, but then they always disconnect things. So Kim Kardashian almost got me to buy these Dr. Dre headphones, but then I was like, is it going to be weird if I buy them in skin color? So I bought them in this color and I always just want to touch them and then they just disconnect from all the time. So anyways, okay, so sorry, Kim. Sorry, Dr. Dre. Sorry. Apple. Yeah. Don’t know much about her, but Shea Coulee, who she was on season nine and RuPaul’s Drag Race, and then she won All Stars Five. I’d interviewed her and she told me about SZA and I was like, cool. I don’t know SZA/s work. And I know SZA/s topping the charts. And she did that video that’s like, based on this is the thing, I know stuff about pop culture, but then I don’t know about the pop culture. But she also did a verse on Lizzo’s track special. Lizzo came to Vancouver recently, and I went to see the show. And what I loved about what she did is halfway through the show, there’s two things clearly rehearsed. You don’t go to a stadium tour without knowing what you’re doing. But there were moments in there where I’m like, are you effing up on purpose? Or are you setting enough leeway to F up so that it looks like you’re genuine and authentically messing up? And it’s okay. And I couldn’t tell if the bits of, like, oh, she made a mistake there with the flute, or like, the choreography, is that on purpose? Or did she just be like, oops, I just messed up. I’m going to roll with it. And I thought that was charming versus sometimes you’ve seen the videos, like, Beyonce falls on stage and then you’re like, oh, my God. She gets up, but she just keeps going, right? Which is a power move. But Lizzo, something had happened and it happened twice. In the show. That’s why I was like, two mistakes. And one was like, she goofed up with the flute. And then the second thing , can’t remember what, but she just owned it and it was fun. But then what I really love what she did. She turned on that. She told whoever was like, manning the lights of the arena, turned them up half. Then she started looking in the audience, calling people out. I see you on the floor and called out their outfit. I see you section on the side there and said something. Then there was one guy at the back. She’s like, I see you in the overalls. I see you. And then she was like, talking to him. And then the guy behind him started waving. She’s like, no, not you. The guy in front of you and the guy in front of her. That person could not comprehend that Lizzo was calling him out from across the arena. And he was like, no. And she’s like, no you. And then finally, I swear, like two minutes later, he figured out it was him and then he lost his shit. I just thought it was so cool that she turned the lights on and acknowledged everyone in the room. Sometimes when we think about it, it’s like the Michael Jackson Super Bowl thing that Janet and Beyonce do. But they come on on the stage and they stand there and they do that stoic. Like they do a number and then they stand there and then they kind of like, look across the arena and everyone just starts cheering. It’s like, oh my god. It’s like that version of being present, right? But she was doing it in such a fun way that I’ve never really seen someone do that in such an arena sized venue. It’s different when you’re like, in a small club. And I was like, that’s so cool. And speaking of small clubs, recently, Just For Laughs, which is like the renowned comedy festival in Montreal, came and did their Vancouver stand, Just For Laughs: Vancouver. And there was a couple of comedians, Matt Rife is one of them. And another guy who does a show called Surrounded Out of Los Angeles. And I forget the comedian’s name, but they do crowd work. I love comedians that do crowd work. Because it’s one thing to watch someone do their rehearsed bits, but I’m like, man, you can go to Netflix for that. You can watch that. I don’t want to watch your rehearsed bits. I’d rather stay at home and watch that. I love it when a comedian goes there and sees someone. It’s like, I’m going to riff on you. And not doing it out of malicious intent, but doing it of a celebration of we are here together. And now I’m going to take the piss out of you. And it’s like having that back and forth. I love a show that’s about crowd work. So the one show that I saw that Paul Elia and Matt Rife did was a show called Low Key Comedy. And they brought up a comedian, and then the comedian did like and there was another guy I’m from Vancouver called Dino Archie. Hilarious. But then afterwards, the three of them just ripped into stuff, and I was sitting in the front row and I was like, I don’t know how much of the show I should be a part of because they started riffing on me. But I was like, I don’t know what the etiquette is here. Do I give back? And I only kind of got into it by the end because the beginning I’m like because I said the girl to next to me. I’m like, oh, they’re totally going to make fun of you. But they went after me and my sweater, and I was wearing, like, bracelets and I was just like, I don’t know if I should talk. What’s the etiquette? But I love that. I love it when the audience interacts. So when you’re live, be live, be present in your presentation. And that’s also the thing. It kind of goes back to when I was like, when you’re making a video and you’re talking to somebody on the other side, talk to the person. I think we forget about this. But it is called social media. How are we being social? How are we integrating each other’s experience in that form of media? And I think that that is where it’s the best. And when you’re talking at someone, granted, maybe it’s like you’re learning how to fold a backdrop. Just talk at me like I don’t need to be my best friend. Fold the damn backdrop. Make the recipe. I don’t need you to give me your life story. But if it is a different kind of thing and we’re building a relationship, that’s what we want to do. It is about the back and forth, and it’s about that community.
Pamela Slim
00:42:35
I love that. Well, where is the best place where people can connect with you on the Internet?
Zain Meghji
00:42:43
Oh, boy. Well, my name is spelt z a oh, sorry. For our American audience. Actually, no, I Canadians.
Pamela Slim
00:42:52
About half my clients are Canadian.
Zain Meghji
00:42:54
In England, too. It’s a z. It’s a z or a z. But then when I say Zed, some people are like, I don’t know how to spell that. I’m like, It’s not a word. It’s the letter. But anyway, okay. Z-A-I-N-M-E-G-H-J-I. That is my name. But you can see that on, like if you’re like, clicking on, like, the episode title name, that’s how you do it. That’s my social handle everywhere. This is the thing. When you do content for other people, you don’t spend enough time doing it for yourself. And that is something that I would like to be more effective at. So that’s what we want to do this year is lean into that and show up in that way.
Pamela Slim
00:43:32
I love it.
Zain Meghji
00:43:33
Connect and they’ll show up for you.
Pamela Slim
00:43:37
We need to balance the comment by whoever that Julie Smith was that left that mean comment. Go to the Oprah interview. And let’s give Zain a little bit.
Zain Meghji
00:43:45
Of love on his YouTube channel.
Pamela Slim
00:43:50
Oh, my gosh. Well, I so appreciate you sharing time with us today. For those of you who are listening, make sure to check the show notes for all kinds of the links that we talked about today that were mentioned in the show. Thank you to my 31 Marketplace production team La’Vista Jones, Tanika Lothery, Jose Arboleda, and the award winning Voice of God narrator for intro and outro Andia Winslow. Until next time, be sure to subscribe to the show and enjoy building partnerships, organizations and communities that grow our ecosystem.
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